Engine sluggish

Post information for engine swaps, transmission swaps and anything else that covers engine and driveline information.
93basswagon
Wagoneer
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Engine sluggish

Post by 93basswagon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:34 am

Hi everyone. My 93 lx had been running nice and peppy until about 2 or 3 weeks ago. It just felt like it had a parachute on the back. So i got the oil changed and it feels a little better but still has a great loss of power. I also know that my engine is running a little rich because i failed my inspection a month ago and that's what they told me. I went on a long trip this weekend and the car could not accelerate going up hills on the highway even very small ones and when i would floor it going up the hills it would start to choke or bog down at a certain point and i would let off. I then realized that the motor wont let me go over 3200 rpm in any gear. As soon as it hits 3200rpm it starts to choke and bog down. I have some new plugs and wires to install but i'm not sure if that will help. Does anyone have any idea what this could be? Thanks for the help in advance.

CDelgado
Ruler of Wagons !
Posts: 1730
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Fremont,CA

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by CDelgado » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Have you cleaned out your EGR ?
Positive transaction:MF Baker, jarhead293, vinelandpd,da9b16, slowagon, Brain'sWagon, jack_lee,5THGENCREATION, RANDALL, INDAKA1, ovh3, theycallmesdz,SilverShadow

http://www.accordwagonclub.com/profile.php?id=8795

da9b16
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:12 pm
Location: Irving, TX
Contact:

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by da9b16 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:05 pm

There are a lot of reasons these symptoms could be occurring. I should make a write up for this but I will walk you through this. Could be a number of culprits but typically choking past 3500 is related to a few items. Do you have an extra distributor to test with by chance?

1. change spark plugs
2. cap
3. rotor
4. clean egr ports
5. clean IACV
6. clean and dial in FITV
7. reset ecu then start car and let idle for 15-20 min do NOT I repeat do NOT hit the gas or turn the lights on or anything after you start it for at least 20 min. The ECU is relearning the fuel maps.... This is very, very important and a vital step.
8. If still choking I would suspect a distributor component to be failing. This is most commonly an igniter.... sometimes easier to "TEST" with a known working unit.
9. When is the last time the 02 sensor was changed?
10. When was the catalytic converter changed last?
11. When was the alternator changed last?

I had a 21 day fix that consisted of soooooo much work and finally found it to be the alternator.... it was choking at 3200rpm and i had replaced EVERYTHING..... including changing/ resetting the timing belt twice.... new cat, new o2, new distributor, new spark plugs twice, and more. I think I covered all the basis here.... The biggest things I can say to do is EGR, and spark plugs and distributor swap.... PM me if you need to.
ImageImageImage

ex-r-wagon
Ruler of Wagons !
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 7:00 am
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact:

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by ex-r-wagon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:58 pm

Start wit the O2 sensor (especially since you failed SMOG). Check for oil in the spark plug tubes, just pull the plug leads off and see if it's covered in oil on the lower part of the lead.
'91 Red EX-R wagon with ALL the factory options. '96 Green Lx wagon with an H22a 5 speed! What's better than one wagon, two wagons!
Image

SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:03 pm
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by SilverShadow » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:53 am

This information is very correct. My wagon could barely get up a freeway on ramp, took forever to move from a red light and felt like the the engine had 2hp. Replaced all that said above and the car went VROOOOOOM! Car talk to English>>>>ahhh with new stuff I can run better. The stuff you had in your car may not have seemed old, but the car thought so after the driving done.
Last edited by SilverShadow on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

93basswagon
Wagoneer
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by 93basswagon » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:04 am

Thanks guys. I will change the plugs and wires this weekend. Then move on to o2 sensor and cleaning the egr and fuel filter. I will let you know what is going on next week.

93basswagon
Wagoneer
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by 93basswagon » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:06 am

Also what is going on if i have oil all over the spark plug tubes?

da9b16
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:12 pm
Location: Irving, TX
Contact:

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by da9b16 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:26 am

93basswagon wrote:Also what is going on if i have oil all over the spark plug tubes?
You have leaking spark plug seals.... There are 4 of them that go along with your valve cover gasket set when you buy that kit.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Mx-rep
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:17 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by Mx-rep » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:32 pm


SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:03 pm
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by SilverShadow » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:38 pm

Here is a DIY link from CB7 I found a few years ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYU8qtPzQOY&feature=sub
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

93basswagon
Wagoneer
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by 93basswagon » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:37 am

Well you all were right. I changed the spark plugs this weekend and there was a significant amount of oil in 3 of 4 spark plug tubes. I changed the plugs and wires and it is running a little better but is still choking while going up hills at high speeds (65-70) and (2700-3000) rpm. I watched that video on replacing the seals and it doesn't look that hard so i am going to go for it myself but i have the feeling that will not fix my problem, i'm just going to do it since it needs to be done. I am going to look up how to clean the egr in my haynes manual today and also look into cleaning the fuel filter.

I am trying to leave o2 sensor, alternator etc. for last since they cost the most.

Also i was told i needed a new battery over the summer when i bought the car from the used car dealer, but i never replaced it because it just kept working. Is there anyway it could not be producing enough power to the distributor or does the power level of electricity rely only on the distributor?

SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:03 pm
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by SilverShadow » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:04 pm

Well I'm not 100% sure but I kinda remember somewhere about using a meter to see how the battery does once it cranks. Something to do with the drop from 12 volts. But I doubt it is the problem. Fuel filters and Egr are somewhat difficult fixes and also may not be the problem. Again...I had the exact same problem and did the major tune-up (minus the egr,filter,o2,pvc,injectors) All I did was the tube seals (mechanic did it as I physically can't due to heart surgery) changed all plugs AND wires, distributor, cleaned the battery posts and put on new clamps. Oil change, air filter. Remember I said the wagon wouldn't even budge to move up a freeway on-ramp? Sometimes a red light was it's worse enemy. Well after all that, that F22 felt like a H22 on steroids.
You rightfully question the battery, but I've been told that once you start the car, the battery's job is mostly done and the alternator keeps it all going. Yes the Haynes manual will explain how to use a meter to see if the alternator is putting out the energy needed. Yet as you go down the road, unless the radio,lights or any other electrical needs wavier, it's not the battery nor the alternator. If it was an O2, a code would show it's faulty. That is the purpose of it being a "sensor".
Oil in those wells can rob the power of a spark plug; can't really produce a spark under oil.
Get going on a good tune-up and let us know what the outcome was. Good Luck people say...but it's not luck, it's shelling out $ and changing parts, dirty hands too.
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

John
Moderator
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 7:00 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by John » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:49 pm

Perhaps a long shot, but how long has it been since the timing belt was replaced? An old timing belt can stretch and allow the cam timing to slip a notch. This would explain your power problems. If the problem is a stretched timing belt, it should be replaced immediately. Honda makes interference engines, which means that if the timing belt breaks, or even allows the cam to slip a few more notches, the valves can contact the pistons. At which point you would have the option of junking the car or paying for a new engine.

As SS said, if the engine starts and runs, there is likely nothing wrong with your alternator and battery - at least nothing that would affect how the engine runs.

Highly unlikely the EGR system is causing this problem, unless it is stuck on full EGR. EGR malfunctions will increase emissions and reduce fuel consumption, but usually don't affect power to a large degree.

It could be the fuel filter. If it is clogged, it would limit power. The engine would run fine up to the fuel flow allowed by the filter, but that would be it.

It's probably not the O2 sensor. The air/fuel ratio would have to be way out to cause the problems you describe. Possible, but usually the computer has a back-up mode that keeps the air/fuel ratio in a slightly rich range and should not cause major problems with engine power. You might have some drivability problems and your fuel economy would go down a lot, but I don't think it would be likely to have a 3200 rpm power threshold.
1997 Accord EX 5-speed wagon (auto to 5-speed swap)

User avatar
wagon97
Wagon Apprentice
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:51 am
Location: NJ

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by wagon97 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:20 pm

It could be lots of things and most likely something already mentioned. I am big on changing fuel filters because I once had a Toyota pick up that was struggling on hills. It turned out to be the fuel filter. You have an older version Accord and I think I read somewhere on this board that your fuel filter is easier to change due to its location. OEM filter is like $25 bucks I believe. I would start there its cheap and fairly simple. If it does not solve problem its just one more maintenance item completed. Just take the proper safety precautions when working with gas. One tip let car sit over night and open fuel cap before working on to relieve fuel pressure. Good Luck :finga:

Here is a link to fuel filter change. If your filter is the same as a 97 this is how you do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuLT6oA1Vdk

SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:03 pm
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Engine sluggish

Post by SilverShadow » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:40 am

I would like to know what happened? I doubt big time it is the fuel filter. When you finally clear all that oil out of the tubes....I bet it will run good. How the hell can a spark be produced and be expected to provide the energy needed if under oil? I'm sure the engine is getting fuel...it's not getting the energy! As far as a rich reading...maybe like a fat person...the "lungs" have to work harder and burn the fuel inefficiently due to sparks with no energy under oil. Rid the sparks of liquid (Diuretics/ oil removal) and the "lungs" work better.
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

Post Reply