Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Post any known problems with the 5th Gen Accord Wagon here.
krc91987
Wagon Owner
Posts: 45
Joined: December 12th, 2011 12:37 AM
Location: Columbus Ohio

Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby krc91987 » December 12th, 2011 01:25 AM

Ok so I have a weird problem, first off let me say that my girlfriend lives almost an hour away, that is needed info. So one day this summer I was going to see her, it was in June I believe a very hot day, 90+ degrees, I was running the AC, cruising along everything was fine, I turned off the highway onto the rural road she live on and continue on. I get within 10 minutes of her house and the car dies, while going 60+ mph down the road, so I put it in neutral and coast off the road. Once I am stopped I put it in park and try to restart, it wont. So I call her and tell her to come and get me, while waiting I try several more times to restart after about 5 minutes it starts, runs for 20 or so seconds and dies again.

She arrives and I decide to call AAA for a tow, she happens to work at a local Honda dealer and says she can have one of her tech friends look at it for free, he is a 15+ year Honda tech, and has worked on my other car before, so I have it towed there. We head to her house and wait for a call from the tech, a few hours later he calls and says its the ignitor in the distributor, I pick up the car the next day, take it home, and replace it. Problem solved.

Skip to a week later, same deal driving to her house, almost there, same kind of day, really hot, car dies again, I was pretty annoyed, have her pick me up, have car towed to dealer again. He doesn't get to it till the next day and tells me he let it run with the AC on for over an hour and a half and it wont die, cant recreate the issue, his suggestion is the coil, since the ignitor is new, I buy it and install it myself. Again problem solved yay.

Two weeks later, guess what, same exact thing happens, now I'm pretty pissed already spent about $200 in parts and it is doing the same thing. Once again tow it to dealer, thank god for AAA or I would be broke from paying for 45 mile tows. Tech calls, he diagnoses it as the main fuel relay, it is common for them to fail in the heat, and when they cool off the car starts again, I had a friend have the same problem on his civic so I figured that made pretty good sense. I install it myself and the problem is again fixed.

Next week same thing dies once more, tow, dealer, The tech is now on vacation, for the next 6 days, when he returns he has a backlog of work, and long story short my wagon sits there for the better part of 3 weeks untouched. I have a backup car, albeit with no AC, thankfully. He calls me and says he is out of ideas, he again let it run for a long time and it wouldn't die, his best guess is a fuel pump, but says it is very rare for them to fail, and has never replaced one on a wagon, he doesn't know where it is located, or how to access it.

So that's where I'm at, it has cooled since then and I have had no further problems, I pulled up the rear seat and cargo area cover, looking for the fuel pump, and only found the fuel float. I guess its only a $100 bucks for a new one, if I knew where it was i would probably go ahead and replace it, I fear I need to drop the tank I found a picture online and it shows the pump on the other side of the tank from the float, and with old, rusty tank straps I'm reluctant to do that.

If anyone has ANY other ideas I would love to hear them, or has replaced there fuel pump, I would like verification on the location please, thanks in advance for the help guys.
Last edited by krc91987 on December 13th, 2011 08:27 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Daily duty

User avatar
Mx-rep
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 335
Joined: September 13th, 2009 09:17 PM
Location: North Texas

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby Mx-rep » December 13th, 2011 10:01 AM

For future reference: When a coil fails it does not just quit, it will lose power for spark as you're driving since it is getting hotter and you can feel it become worse until it quits.
I feel for ya and as a mechanic, the worst problems are the ones that are intermittent or that you can't duplicate. Seems everything done is correct. Also, if you would like some help, it would be beneficial to know what year and model your car is and if it is stock.

krc91987
Wagon Owner
Posts: 45
Joined: December 12th, 2011 12:37 AM
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby krc91987 » December 13th, 2011 04:01 PM

Yeah I guess I forgot that its a 95 ex automatic, with a f23a1 out of a 2000 accord ex other than that its completely stock
Daily duty

User avatar
SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: March 13th, 2005 04:03 PM
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby SilverShadow » December 13th, 2011 04:44 PM

Even more beneficial would be to go back to Control Panel here and enter your location so someone near you can help. I know it's in your profile, but who wants to go look each time? Maybe someone in your area knows an experienced Honda mechanic.
I was going to say the main relay, but you said you replaced it. Question....with what? Did you go to the auto store and get a new one? Did you go to the junk yard? Or get one from another car? Yes it does matter as if you didn't buy it new, chances are the donor one is also bad. The one from another Honda MUST be the exact same #'s or it will work for a few hours and then go..."hey this is not my ECU!" I think ours is RZ088. I once put in a civics' into the coupe and nada.
Do you loose all electrical or just the ability to crank it over? I'm still going with that Main Relay. I don't know what your guy checked: cables loose or cut? Spark plug wires? Battery good?
GL and tell us more.
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

krc91987
Wagon Owner
Posts: 45
Joined: December 12th, 2011 12:37 AM
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby krc91987 » December 13th, 2011 08:25 PM

I replaced the relay with a brand new one from the local Honda dealer, I had a friend who worked parts there for 8 years, so I'm sure I got the right new one. I lose the ability to keep the car running, if say it happens and I let the car sit for 1 minute it will start then immediately die, 5 minutes it will start run for 30 seconds or so and die, if completely cool it will run for approximately 45 minutes then die, and start the process all over again. The battery is newer, I've narrowed it down to something getting too hot, as it only happens when its over 90 degrees, with the AC running on longer trips. I have been through the car fairly thoroughly, as I had done the engine swap myself, and no I didn't mess anything up doing that, it happened 6 months or more after the swap, not to mention I have had the engine out of my Civic at least 3 times and it has zero problems. As for a good local mechanic, I have one, I don't doubt his ability one bit, I just always get cars with weird problems no one else has ever seen. I'm sure someone has an idea, and just so I don't get any grief I am in Columbus, Ohio.
Daily duty

User avatar
SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: March 13th, 2005 04:03 PM
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby SilverShadow » December 16th, 2011 04:54 PM

Wow..you answered all my questions..now someone needs to answer all yours.
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

User avatar
bornmad
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 237
Joined: November 10th, 2009 02:44 PM
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby bornmad » December 16th, 2011 06:16 PM

I gut says Fuel Pump. It is VERY rare for them to die, but it does happen. We had an explorer that we were driving from CO to TX. Sunny hot day, A/C. Its start to sputter wanting to die. We limped it into the next town. Turned it off and topped off. Ran fine for 20 miles and same thing. Diagnosis was fuel pump. IT would get hot and fail. When it was cool no problems.


On the other hand on fords they have a fuel cut off switch that would cut the fuel off incase of an accident, etc. Somewhere along the years I have heard honda has an electronic one. Might be that is it just stops and not sputtering and dieing...
Dr. Daze!
Rolling Around Denver, CO
*** 2012 TSX Wagon ***

User avatar
SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: March 13th, 2005 04:03 PM
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby SilverShadow » December 16th, 2011 11:52 PM

Well to make a car run takes two things that I know. Unless you live in the town of Bedrock -
Image
One is electric and the other is fuel. If it goes off when hot it just might be a sensor getting to a heat limit or if it's fuel I can't say fuel tank cause they (engineers) must have accounted for that in design being fuel can't get hot or BOOM. Keep looking!
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

krc91987
Wagon Owner
Posts: 45
Joined: December 12th, 2011 12:37 AM
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby krc91987 » December 17th, 2011 11:36 AM

and i checked the part number on the main relay just in case it matched what you said rz 88 there was another letter in there somewhere but im sure its the right one,
Daily duty

User avatar
SilverShadow
has the most posts !
Posts: 4677
Joined: March 13th, 2005 04:03 PM
Location: Reseda, California

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby SilverShadow » December 17th, 2011 05:40 PM

yea that is correct...RZ-088 ...next check Air filter for being clogged..
Then fuel not reaching the injection system. If you know how to check it all fine. If not and still want to DIY, then look in the Haynes Repair Manual Chapter 4.
'92 LX Wagon-Steve - STOLEN (9/3/12)
'92 LX Wagon-Steve-New
2000 EX Coupe -Joe
ACCORDS ALL THE WAY!
Image

krc91987
Wagon Owner
Posts: 45
Joined: December 12th, 2011 12:37 AM
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby krc91987 » December 19th, 2011 10:45 AM

Like I said I replaced the engine about 10 months ago with one I bought off a friend, his brother owns a local performance shop, with a mid 9 second shop car, ie he knows what he is doing, they had the motor and everything apart to replace all the seals, etc, also they cleaned the injectors and put in new O rings. I have been through all of the obvious stuff, its not any of it, and as I said before the car runs flawlessly in cooler weather, and on short trips in hot weather, but a long trip on a hot day kills it every time. I appreciate the ideas though keep em coming.
Daily duty

User avatar
bornmad
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 237
Joined: November 10th, 2009 02:44 PM
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby bornmad » December 19th, 2011 11:14 AM

When it dies.. does it start sputter when it dies or does run great and justs dies?
Dr. Daze!
Rolling Around Denver, CO
*** 2012 TSX Wagon ***

krc91987
Wagon Owner
Posts: 45
Joined: December 12th, 2011 12:37 AM
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby krc91987 » December 20th, 2011 02:17 AM

When it dies it just quits, I have been traveling between 45-75mph, every time it dies, fine one second, then, completely dead, shuts off.
Daily duty

User avatar
bornmad
Come on.. Ask me a Wagon Question
Posts: 237
Joined: November 10th, 2009 02:44 PM
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby bornmad » December 20th, 2011 11:43 AM

krc91987 wrote:When it dies it just quits, I have been traveling between 45-75mph, every time it dies, fine one second, then, completely dead, shuts off.


I would eliminate fuel pump. Usually when i have seen pumps go out, they sputter (like the engine is missing) and then die.

Does any othe the lights come on, on your dash, Check Engine light, etc...?
Dr. Daze!
Rolling Around Denver, CO
*** 2012 TSX Wagon ***

Roader
Wagon Apprentice
Posts: 91
Joined: May 26th, 2011 10:43 AM
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Car dies on very hot days will not restart till cool

Postby Roader » December 22nd, 2011 04:47 PM

Carry an extra spark plug and a wrench to crack the fuel line. When it dies, first pull one of the plug wires, attach the extra spark plug, lay the plug on the valve cover, and crank the car to see if the plug is arcing. If it is, put the plug wire back on and crack the fuel line at the rail. Turn the ignition to on and check that fuel sprays out. That will at least narrow down the spark vs. fuel problem.

Please don't reverse the order of operations; spark plus raw fuel could start a fire.
'96 LX F23A1/auto
If Karl, instead of writing a lot about capital, had made a lot of it, it would have been much better - Marx's mom